Ep. 38: What would punishment look like in an ideal or free society?

 

The mindcrime liberty show discusses punishment theory.  What would punishment look like in an ideal society or a stateless society? What is the purpose of punishment: to repay property damages, deter future crimes, a moral crusade on behalf of god or some secular god/creed or class oppression to protect the ruling class?  Is punishment (or “justice”) merely a sociological construction to maintain one groups dominance?  That definitely explains why Julian Assange is being “punished” (as well as historically Christ, Paul, and Socrates all of which got punished by the ruling powers).  If someone like Julian Assange or Edward Snowden for example was to be freed then the existing ruling powers would be unmasked and there maybe more future leakers or as  Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama refers to as "29 year hold hackers" or as Hillary Clinton refers to as "tools of Russian intelligence."  We both hold that punishment must in a way exist of some kind (even if it's merely extreme social ostracism) otherwise arguably there would be more murders and thefts even if they are only small time murderers and small time thieves not large states.  It's not only right wing libertarians or angry religious theonomists that punish people even in some sort of Chomsky style anarcho syndicalist commune there must be some kind of punishment for those who want to concentrate power or start a state/megacorporation.  Actual existing socialists or communists countries clearly punished people quite ruthlessly. The most ruthless prison system today is probably the North Korean prison system and the most ruthless historical system probably was East Germany with its mixture of high functioning society and tyrannical occupier state.  So punishment must be meted out to those who violate the creed of a society be whatever creed that is. If the creed is property rights then anyone who violates property rights must be punished. If the creed is anarcho syndicalism then anyone who wants to start a capitalist enterprise must be punished.  If the creed is progressive totalitarian humanism then anyone who wants to think otherwise must be punished.   After all feminists clearly think rape ought to be punished and most “right thinking persons” think that certain current and historical boogieman ought to be shot or removed even from photos as Stalin did.  In all of these possible societies and instances what ought to be done?  Is mass incarceration a solution? The trouble with this is it requires a huge amount of societal resources to imprison people long term and is a strictly modern phenomena.  Swithun thinks that corporal punishments and the death penalty are an improvement over the current system. Tim largely agrees even citing Michel Foucault pointing out that the modern totalitarian “humanist” therapeutic state has grown significantly on its various moral crusades to unfathomable levels and arguably is the most inhuman system ever built. The welfare state and the public school system system are arguably just an extension of them to warehouse unruly people who don’t fit into the current society which is not that different then historical societies. Maybe public caning or hanging would be an improvement over mass incarceration.